I posted this on the most recent reviewers page. I do not think the process is working for me, unfortunately.
Video Talk:NACRA (sailing)
Review of submission by ZeroXero Draft:NACRA
Thank you for reviewing my article NACRA, which I had submitted for the third time. You rejected it with the same note as the previous reviewer, about sources, which I find odd because I added 10 new references between the submissions.
The rejection makes this primary claim: "This submission's references do not adequately show the subject's notability."
There are two, and only two, companies that have been the primary builders of beach cats, worldwide, since about 1968. Hobie and Nacra. Hobie's first successful design was a few years before NACRA's first design, but both have built dozens of boats in the 1980s, 1990s, 2000s, and 2010s. NACRA has dominated Hobie for the last 20 years, as evidenced by several metrics: Designs accepted by the International Olympic authority for the sport: World Sailing, entries in open regattas, visibility in the trade press, and selection as boats for the Olympics.
Essentially the position you have adopted, I am sure inadvertently due to lack of expertise in the subject matter, is that an article about Ford Trucks is "notable" (that is the Hobie article, which has been up for years) but for some reason the article about Chevy Trucks is not (despite having a more references, and more significant, independent and noteworthy references.)
- Comparison: Hobie Article NACRA Draft Article
- Total # of Refs 14 16
- # of Ref Sources 8 14
- SOURCE BREAKDOWN
- company web site 1 1
- Sailing.Org (Olympic Body) 6 1 (for Hobie these are all just "Class Association Reports")
- US Sailing Org 1 0
- Australia Sailing Org. 0 1
- British Sailing Org. 0 1
- Print Magazines 0 5 (Sail(2)(USA), Sailing (AUS), Yachts and Yachting(2)(UK)
- Newspaper 0 1 (Savannah Morning News)
- Sailing Web Sites & Web Magazines 0 4
The three magazines are among the leading sailing publications in their respective countries, all of them of long standing.
To respond to another criticism: these are all articles about either NACRAs as a group or specific NACRA model. For instance, the Newspaper article is titled ""Model of catamaran used in Worrell 1000 under fire", the model was the NACRA 6.0. So, it was not merely mentioned. Not anecdotal. NACRA is in the title of all other articles.
In contrast, the Hobie references are pretty weak. I'm sure I could do a better job of finding better Hobie references, and in fact I will probably put that on my "to do" list for Wikipedia. But as it stands the References for the Hobie Article are clearly fewer in number, mostly just lists of results from races, and completely lacking any actual editorial coverage of the brand or their boats.
NOTABILITY: USE IN THE OLYMPICS
Moving on to NOTABILITY: Another simple criteria is "Has the manufacturers boats achieved selection as an Olympic boat". Very few of the tens of thousands of boat designs have ever been selected for use in the Olympics. Only two catamarans have ever been selected for use in the Olympics: the Tornado and the NACRA 17. The Tornado was used from 1976 to 2008, teh NACRA has replaced it in 2012 and 2016. No Hobie Cat has ever been selected as an Olympic boat. Both the Tornado and NACRA 17 have their own pages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornado_(sailboat) , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nacra_17.
In addition the NACRA 15 has been selected (by World Sailing) for the Youth Sailing World Championships. And, again there is a page on this boat already in Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nacra_15/ . It was also selected by the RYA (Royal Yachting Association, the controlling authority for sail racing in the UK.
The Article on Notability says: "If the individual organization has received no or very little notice from independent sources, then it is not notable simply because other individual organizations of its type are commonly notable or merely because it exists" What I am showing here is that it is Notable because NACRA (the Brand, which actually involves multiple companies) has been SELECTED THROUGH COMPETITIVE TRIALS by the INDEPENDENT SOURCES of World Sailing and The Royal Yachting Association and others. (This information is all contained in the references, BTW.)
In addition the articles in leading print magazines, is another example of INDEPENDENT SOURCES finding NACRA "NOTABLE". Clearly "Sail" "Sailing" and "Yachts and Yachting" magazines are "RELIABLE SOURCES" on the topic of sail boats and brands.
The DEPTH OF COVERAGE criteria, again seems to be met by my references. (It is probably not met, in my opinion by the Hobie Article, which has six references which are essentially archived club reports. I could certainly add six, or more, of those for NACRA class associations, but did not because they don't meet the DEPTH OF COVERAGE criteria.
ARE BOAT BRANDS NOTABLE AT ALL? While Hobie Cat is the closest analog, I decided to check and see if other boat BRANDS had pages, starting with some of my favorites. Here is what i found, and some notes on their references.
X-Yachts YES References: 26 (Breakdown: 6 Magazine article from several of the same mags, several from sail web sites, 5 from manufacturer) X-Yachts are not an Olympic class, nor a Sailing.org offshore class. They have built far fewer boats than NACRA.
Catalina Yachts YES. References: 5 (2 magazines, 1 book) Very popular brand, built in large numbers similar to NACRA.
"Pearson Yachts" YES. References: 5 (2 magazines, 1 book, none retrievable) A defunct boat company, built boats from 1956 to 1990.
Corsair Marine YES. References: 2 (3 magazine, 1 personal web site) In production of various models since 1984.
Laser Performance YES. References 12 (1 article, 1 book) Claims to be the largest manufacturer of small boats (possibly true, no reference). Does Produce a Olympic Class boat, the Laser. I would say this company is clearly notable, like Hobie and NACRA - due to ubiquity, world-wide use of their boats, longevity of the brand and designs.
Hinckley Yachts YES. References (4 articles from 2 magazines).
SUMMARY:
I feel that in making significant changes to this article between the second and third submissions I overcame the NOTABILITY criticism. I did not get any helpful feedback, on my sincere effort to craft an article that meets the standard.
My article is clearly better referenced than all but one of the other Sailboat Brand Articles I surveyed. (I did not cherry pick, every one I thought of is listed above.)
I realize that comparison, alone, doesn't make something notable. But, from my position as a subject matter expert I would rate Laser, Hobie and NACRA as clearly notable, built on multiple continents, sailed all over the world, in the case of Laser and NACRA boats that have been used in Olympic Sailing events, a notable achievment that only 30 or so manufacturers have ever achieved.
Maybe all these other, poorly referenced articles should be deleted, but I don't think so. I think mine should be accepted.
DISCLAIMERS:
I am not a current or former employee of NACRA or any related business. I have never worked in the Sailboat industry. I do not own a NACRA, but I have sailed and raced them. I consider myself a medium level SME on boats, particularly Multihulls, and have read a huge amount on the topic for more than 30 years. Multihulls have had a hard time gaining respect in the sailing world, for many years, and it still hurts to see one of the greatest, most accomplished, most noted, and most successful racing brands DENIED SPACE IN WIKIPEDIA, while boats whose only notable feature is that RICH GUYS BUY THEM like X-Yachts (perhaps 500 total ever built), of course, has it's space here. It seems "classist".
I would like HELP, mostly HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHY THE STANDARD SEEMS SO OUT OF WACK FOR THIS ARTICLE COMPARED TO ALL OTHERS IN THE CATEGORY.
How many *MORE* articles & references would make this brand Notable?
HELP! PLEASE!
Thanks! -- Preceding unsigned comment added by ZeroXero (talk o contribs) 00:21, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
Source of article : Wikipedia
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